Instustry Interview #5: UMPQUA Feather Merchants

This is the final in a five part series of interviews exploring the relationship between fly fishing for carp and the industry. This interview features Bruce Olson, New Fly Manager at UMPQUA Feather Merchants and was performed as a free-form interview over the phone. A summary of all the interviews with commentary is also available in the recent CarpPro Fly Fishing For Carp Special.

Fly-Carpin:  I would like to talk about what products you currently have available. 

Bruce Olson (UMPQUA):  As a matter of fact we have close to three pages in our catalog devoted to flies for carp, and I noticed on your blog that you are familiar with Jay Zimmerman’s Fly (Backstabber), and you know we also have Egan’s Headstand out there.  I think I would have to say, I have no absolute numbers at my fingertips, but that among all species that we fly fish for these days carp is the fastest growing and explosive.   

Fly-Carpin:  Sometimes I wonder if 100 or 1000% growth in a tiny segment is tiny and if the industry feels like it is worth their while.    The fly companies seem to be leading the charge; do the fly companies feel new trends before other segments of the industry?

Bruce Olson (UMPQUA):   Well, we try to stay right on the cutting edge of course and well, you know carp are everywhere.  Gosh it’s been 16 years since Dave Whitlock basically said sight-fishing for carp in Lake Michigan is the best most fun fly fishing he has ever done.  That’s Dave Whitlock.  When you are talking about Jay Zimmerman and you get post runoff in the mountains he’s still more likely to be down here on the Front Range fly fishing for carp or pike.  Pike is another one that is growing but they are not found in as many places, you can chase carp in Arizona, California, and the Kentucky River down just below (indecipherable), they are pounding that for carp.  Barry “Carp” Reynolds here in Colorado, he pounds the Platte River all the time.  You know they are everywhere.  Every year, I would say for the past four years, we have added one or two or three new carp flies. 

When we first came out with our carp section, all we had to put in it was some trout flies that we knew would carry over for carp and some bonefish flies.  Now, it’s not like we have a huge carp offering but now we have 31 different flies that we recommend for carp.

Fly-Carpin:  I imagine there are a couple dozen more in your catalog that would work in a pinch at least.

Bruce Olson  (UMPQUA):  Oh, far more than that, yes.  Because carp feed on so many different things.  If you are fishing the reservoirs of Montana at certain times of year you had better have a cotton wood seed fly.  Carp will take on the surface they will take off the bottom.  They eat everything.   Let’s face it, if you have the option of fishing a 7 weight rod, who is going to give you the bigger tussle, a 10lb carp or a 12inch rainbow?

Fly-Carpin:  You have got allot of carp flies, does your carp fly line-up sell well?

Bruce Olson  (UMPQUA):  Absolutely.  Otherwise I wouldn’t have mentioned that we are going to keep adding carp flies.  We sell allot of them.  But then again, allot of flies for carp also cross over into other fisheries.  One of our bestselling flies for carp is Mike Mercer’s Micro crayfish, and yet I bet for every one that is purchased to fish for carp, probably up to 50 or so are for trout or smallmouth.  See smallmouth is the latest prior to carp explosive fishery.  I mean, smallmouth has gone just great guns.  But then again smallmouth are even more (could not transcribe) than carp are.  Especially since they react like Trout in rivers and like bass are expected to act in lakes.  You can feed them all kinds of stuff.  That is why we don’t have a smallmouth section, just a general bass section.  We would have to put half our trout flies in that section.   

Fly-Carpin:  So you guys have a pretty good selection of carp flies already.  Are you going to keep on adding?

Bruce Olson  (UMPQUA):  No, No we are going to keep on adding.  In fact next catalog that comes out next summer we are going to add more carp flies.  A couple every year.

Fly-Carpin:  Are you adding Barry Reynolds new fly?

Bruce Olson  (UMPQUA):  We have Barry’s [Reynolds] carp fly we added two years ago and in this catalog we added three colors of the fly called the carp bitters.  He is serious about his carp fishing. 

Reynold's Carp Bitter, Rust (Photo by UMPQUA)

Fly-Carpin:  Do you participate in any activities?  I know for example in the past you have supported Carp Slam right?

Bruce Olson  (UMPQUA):  Yes, we mostly supported them with prizes.  You know, it’s hard to give out flies to everybody.  .  We also supported the carp throw-down in southern California.  Sponsored by Conway Bowman and Al Quattrocchi.  Yeah we supported that pretty heavily because of our relationship with them. 

[Editors Note:  Bruce was being modest  or simply does not have personal involvement. UMPQUA has been extraordinarily supportive of Carp Slam including flies for participants.]

Fly-Carpin:  Are any of your marketing guys, product guys or executives into fly fishing for carp.  Have they tried it?

Bruce Olson  (UMPQUA):  All of them.  All of us.  Our President and our sales manager last summer were either going out before coming to work or after work.  Our fly products specialist, he fishes with Jay Zimmerman and John Barr allot and he fishes for carp allot.  There are just so many opportunities on the Front Range.  I know of ten guys who work with us who fly fish for carp at some time or another.

Fly-Carpin:  In the discussions I have had so far I have been surprised at the positive response [to the question above].  There seems to be a trend with guides where trout guides really want to fly fish for carp in their off-time.  It seems like that might be an industry wide trend?

Bruce Olson  (UMPQUA):  I think it depends.  If you are one of the guides up at Taylor Creek in Basalt you’re probably not going to go out fly fishing for carp.  If you have free time I know for a fact these guys are trout junkies and they are going to be pounding the roaring fork and frying pan but if there are carp available, yeah lots of shop personnel and fly fishing guides are branching out into carp.  It’s something different.  I am going to take a quick count here.  I know of 10 guys who work with us who fly fish for carp at some time or another.

Fly-Carpin:  I almost wonder if the actual doing of fly fishing for carp is moving faster in the industry than in the general populace.  One guy mentioned that carp might tend to be an advanced species. 

Bruce Olson  (UMPQUA):  See years ago I think people thought “they’re warm water trash fish, they’re kind of ugly and what is so hard about carp?”  Well, try and catch one pal.  They’re not easy.  You don’t just walk up to a pond, and see a bunch of carp swimming and hook 'em hand over fist.  You have got to use stealth and all kinds of still-water skills, and you know they will spook in a flash.  

I just know that every magazine now is coming out with articles on fishing for carp.  It’s happening.  And people are guiding for carp.  Henry Cowen in Atlanta guides (…) part of the year for spotted bass and stripers and then when it gets real warm they wade and sight fishing for carp with his clients. 

It’s taking off.  The fish have been discovered and they’ve been affirmed as not just something different but a prize to seek out.  And they’re strong as hell.

Industry Interview #4: RIO Products

This is the fourth in a five part series of interviews exploring the relationship between fly fishing for carp and the industry. This interview features Simon Gawesworth, Marketing Manager at Rio Products and was performed via question / answer through email.  A summary of all the interviews with commentary is also available in the recent CarpPro Fly Fishing For Carp Special.

Fly-Carpin:  Please tell us about any current participation in the fly fishing for carp sub-culture that you are excited about as an organization.  Does RIO have any products specifically designed for carp? Do you participate in or support any carp events or activities?  Have you had any interesting interactions with the community?

RIO Products:  We only have the carp fly line at the moment. There are no plans to develop anything beyond that at the moment, as it is not exactly a popular fly line, nor a popular branch of fly fishing – yet.  However, as open-minded as we are, if carp fly fishing does continue to grow, we will certainly be looking to develop more and specific products.  Zack Dalton, our sales manager here, has fished a few carp on the fly tournaments locally, and we have helped with some sponsorship of such events as a result, but nothing more major than that.

 

Fly-Carpin:  Does RIO have any near-term plans to expand your reach in the carpin’ community that you would like to share?  New product releases, events, activities, etc.

RIO Products:  I guess I answered this question as part of the above one!

 

Fly-Carpin:  In a more general sense how does RIO view the long-term future of fly fishing for carp and how does that future relate to you? Examples would include: Do you anticipate a growing market with changing demand for product and marketing strategies? Do you have any thoughts on what the relationship between the general industry and the community might change and grow?

RIO Products:  I have no doubt that the popularity of fly fishing for carp will grow. Every week there are more articles, more references and more talk about it, and really that is all that needs to get increase participation. There are many more states that have quality carp waters than quality trout waters, so the opportunity and fisheries are certainly there. Unlike the UK (where I am from), there is no real carp fishing culture in the US – with any kind of fishing method, so the first step is to enlighten all anglers about this species.

 

Fly-Carpin:  I am also personally curious if any of your executive, marketing or product development staff has any experience with targeting carp on the fly.

RIO Products:  I fly fished for carp in the UK before I moved here, and have had a couple of excursions since moving here, but that is all. Moving to the fabled trout waters of Idaho ensures that most of my fly fishing time is spent pursuing trout on the rivers and lakes, rather than carp. Having said that, when conditions are lousy for trout fishing, a carp on a fly is an excellent alternative. Zack Dalton, who I mentioned earlier has certainly spent a lot more time than I pursuing carp.

Industry Interview #3: Catch Fly Fishing

This is the third in a five part series of interviews exploring the relationship between fly fishing for carp and the industry. This interview features Eric Bebee, owner at Catch Fly Fishing and was performed as a free-form interview over the phone. A summary of all the interviews with commentary is also available in the recent CarpPro Fly Fishing For Carp Special.

Fly-Carpin: Does CATCH have any fly fishing for carp products that the readers might be interested in?

Catch Fly Fishing: Currently, in this year’s catalog, no. Next year we plan on adding a total of around 300 new patterns but 125 to 150 will be for carp.

Fly-Carpin: Why the big carp push?

Catch Fly Fishing: Well I am a carp fisherman myself and it’s a way to branch out. To get people into fly fishing who don’t normally have a trout fishery in their states. Carp fishing is pretty much in all 50 states in some form or another and it’s a way to reach out to future fly fishermen. To get them involved into something they normally wouldn’t be able to because traditionally fly fishing is trout and it should branch out. If you can catch a fish on any kind of gear-rig or spin-rod you can catch them on a fly. There are new materials and new stuff out that you can build flies as big as you want. You can build them as strong as you want and you can go after any species of fish you want, ranging from trout all the way to shark. 

Fly-Carpin: How are you going to get to 125 to 150 carp patterns? Where are those coming from?

Catch Fly Fishing: Well, we have a design team for CATCH Fly Fishing. You yourself are going to be like the head designer for carp. The stuff that you are throwing out there is pretty fantastic. 

[Editor’s Note: This interview was performed during a rapidly and still evolving relationship between CATCH and I. On my part there are clear conflicts of interest involved in this interview. While the intention of the interview was strictly to be informative and interesting, clearly those intentions are tainted to some degree. Judge for yourself to what extent]

We also have 150 tiers right now that are instructed just to go make something up. Make something that is going to work for what you believe about carp. Do your research and look for stuff. We are going to try and stay away from your bread patterns. Even though they work, if you are going to go after them on a fly, make it a realistic fly. It’s like fishing for trout with trout beads. They work. They work well, but is that what you really want to do? I want to make it an actual sport where you have to work for the carp because carp are really hard to catch.

Fly-Carpin: How do you picture the evolution of fly fishing for carp in the future and the relationship between industry and fly fishing for carp?

Catch Fly Fishing: I think it is definitely going to grow. You will notice it started out with trout then to smallmouth. I fish for Walleye, bass, carp and musky. If you are going to release the fish anyways it doesn’t matter what you catch. I will catch shad. I will catch what we call whitefish. It doesn’t matter to me, it’s about fooling the fish with something you have made and really enjoying the sport. Just getting out, getting people new into fly fishing. That is what it is about for me. And I think that is what it is about for the company. Just getting people involved, and you have to focus on everything. You can’t just pick what sells the best and go from there. You have to really get involved into every aspect of fly fishing from saltwater to freshwater to anything.

And the carp, the carp will take you into your backing in nothing flat. They are strong, they are hard to catch. You have to really sneak up on them. If they see you they don’t even let you know they have seen you, it just like game over. You have been sitting there struggling over a carp for a couple of hours and he has already seen you and he is not going to eat and you don’t know. You just have to be very stealthy, and they release pheromones into the water that lets other carp in the vicinity know that there is danger. There is just so much going on with carp that makes them all that much harder to catch. That is what I like about it, and they are strong.

Fly-Carpin: How about carp tournaments, and carp activities through local clubs. Can you picture ever participating in those?

Catch Fly Fishing: Oh absolutely. There is a carp tournament up on the Bighorn under Yellowtail Damn. It is put on by the Bighorn River Alliance. Although I haven’t had a chance to participate in it CATCH fly fishing does donate flies for raffles to support the club and to keep the bighorn safe I guess you could say. There is allot of stuff that goes on in terms of damn management and water releases and money that they raise from the carp tournament helps to fill all those needs. I do want to [personally] participate in the carp cup and the stuff that they have going on here. I just haven’t had a chance yet.

Fly-Carpin: That’s the model of the Carp Slam here in Denver and it has been extraordinarily successful. 

Catch Fly Fishing: It’s growing here. I mean you start out here a few years ago with four or five boats. I think last year they had twenty-some? It just a good time and they do a really good job with it. Live music, food, auctions. Just fun stuff all day long, it is like going to a bass tournament or something like that (giddy laugh).

Fly-Carpin: There is a distinct possibility that a national traveling carp series comes into existence in the next year or two. Just some interesting info, I am not involved in making that happen or anything.

Catch Fly Fishing: That would be awesome (another giddy laugh). They should really try putting the Yellowtail damn or the Afterbay damn on there because there are some huge carp.

Fly-Carpin: Have you or any of your staff tried fly fishing for carp?

Catch Fly Fishing: Absolutely. I and another fly designer James Cranford spent allot of time this year looking for carp. Every time we see carp we stop what we are doing and fish for them. There is no comparison between carp fishing and trout fishing. Carp are a lot stronger, they are a lot faster and they are a lot bigger. At least where I am at a three foot carp is not out of the question. To me it is fun. Any time you can take an eight weight and actually have him peel you off into your backing with your drag set pretty good; it is allot of fun.

Fly-Carpin: The readers might not be familiar with your organization, it is fairly new. Can you say something about how they may be able to find you?

Catch Fly Fishing: They can find us on Catchflyfish.com or Facebook at Catch Fly Fish

Fly-Carpin: If they do want to get ahold of some of your flies can they go into their local fly shop and ask them to order from you?

Catch Fly Fishing: Absolutely. If they see anything in the catalog that they want or if they see it online, tell them to go to their local fly shop, tell them what they want and we will get it to them. A minimum order for a fly shop is one dozen.

Eric Bebee With a Nice Montana Carp

Industry Interview #2: Trout's Fly Fishing

This is the second in a five part series of interviews exploring the relationship between fly fishing for carp and the industry. This interview features Will Rice, Director of Marketing at Trout's Fly Fishing  (a fly-shop located at one of the epicenters of fly fishing for carp in Downtown Denver) and was performed in question / answer format via email.  A summary of all the interviews with commentary is also available in the recent CarpPro Fly Fishing For Carp Special.

Fly-Carpin: Please tell us about any current participation in the fly fishing for carp sub-culture that you are excited about as an organization. Does Trout's sell any products specifically designed for carp? Do you participate in or support any carp events or activities? Have you had any interesting interactions with the community?

Trout's Fly Fishing: Trout’s Fly Fishing recognizes the Denver South Platte as our home water. This urban section of river is one of the most renowned, hardcore, and prolific clear water carp fisheries in the United Sates. Trout’s has been a proud sponsor of Denver Trout Unlimited’s annual Carp Slam event for a number of year’s and all of our employees are avid and self admitted carp junkies. 

In addition to being a long term sponsor and strategic partner supporting the Carp Slam, Trout’s Fly Fishing hosted our first guided trip on the South Platte this summer – dubbed the “Urban Carp Extravaganza.” We took five clients out who never fished for carp before in the blazing peak of August heat and had a blast chasing carp in skinny clear water. We shuttled guides and clients up and down the river in the infamous Pink Bus and ultimately had five fish come to hand. For anyone who fishes the DSP, that’s not a bad day on the water.

As far as products go, yes - Trout’s Fly Fishing caters to carp anglers. From fluorocarbon tippet and a wide variety of commercially tied flies that are specific to carp, to fly lines, rod and reel combinations , Trout’s has the gear in our shop and our online store to outfit anglers who want to target carp. Most importantly, Trout’s provides solid, real-time information about the carp fishing in Denver to customers in effort to help make their time on the water more productive. We’re happy to answer questions in our shop, online on our blog or facebook page and we’re just a phone call away if our customers are on the road or on the river.

Fly-Carpin: Does Trout’s have any near-term plans to expand your reach in the carpin’ community that you would like to share? New product releases, events, activities, etc.

Angler Dan Kagey, Photo by Will Rice

Trout's Fly Fishing: At Trout’s Fly fishing our mission is to make the sport of fly fishing more accessible to everyone. Carp are just about everywhere surrounding the mile high city, easy to access, challenging to catch, and a blast to chase with a fly rod. It makes a lot of sense to introduce customers to carp fishing if they are interested in fishing options close by, looking to elevate their game, or just looking for a change of pace from high country trout.

We have a ton of customers ask us about the best way to prepare for a saltwater trip where they plan to pursue bonefish, redfish, or permit. One of our first pieces of advice: go find a carp in the river, study their behavior, present a fly without spooking the fish, get ‘em to eat… and then hold on. That’s pretty good practice for a saltwater environment. 

Fly-Carpin: In a more general sense how does Trout’s view the long-term future of fly fishing for carp and how does that future relate to you? Examples would include: Do you anticipate a growing market with changing demand for product and marketing strategies? Do you have any thoughts on what the relationship between the general industry and the community might change and grow?

Trout’s Fly Fishing: Carp fishing is not for everyone – we get that. We also get that carp fishing has an amazing addictive quality that is not always found with other species. Carp are big and hard fighting, they are very challenging to catch on a fly, and they are heavily concentrated in rivers and other still water environments across the United States. At Trout’s we have recognized that the carp fishing sub culture is made up of die hard anglers who like to have fun on the water and can sustain a healthy dose of self punishment – and then go back out for more. We know it because we’ve all gone through that learning curve– and we continue to fish for carp because they continue to challenge us as anglers. Most importantly, we enjoy talking to our customers about fishing for carp and helping them to get through the learning curve as quickly as possible.

Fly-Carpin: I am also personally curious if any of your executive, marketing or product development staff has any experience with targeting carp on the fly.

Trout’s Fly Fishing: The entire staff here at Trout’s Fly Fishing has extensively fished for carp. We’ve all designed flies specifically for the Denver South Platte and the surrounding carp fisheries. We have all experimented with different rod, reel, leader and tippet combinations. Our staff prides ourselves on fishing hard for a wide variety of species and carp are one of our favorites – especially right here in the Mile High City.

Industry Interview #1: Orvis Rod & Tackle

This is the first in five part series of interviews exploring the relationship between fly fishing for carp and the industry.  This interview features Tom Rosenbauer, Marketing Director for Orvis Rod & Tackle and was performed in question / answer format via email.   A summary of all the interviews with commentary is also available in the recent CarpPro Fly Fishing For Carp Special.

Tom Rosenbauer with a Lake Champlain Carp

Fly-Carpin:  Please tell us about any current participation in the fly fishing for carp sub-culture that you are excited about as an organization. Does Orvis have any products specifically designed for carp? Do you participate in or support any carp events or activities?  Have you had any interesting interactions with the community?

Tom Rosenbauer:  We are actually going to begin advertising in Carp Pro magazine in January.  We feel that although carp fishing will never become huge (they aren’t as pretty as trout and they are tough to catch), carp fishing will become more popular.

We sponsor the Carp tournament in Denver, we sponsor Conway Bowman’s Carp Throwdown in San Diego, and our company store in Portland, Oregon runs a Carp Tournament every year called Carpocalypse. 

Of course standard rods, reels, and leaders (9 foot fluorocarbon and most people add some length to them), sunglasses, etc work great for carp.  We also have a really good selection of carp-specific flies.

Fly-Carpin:  Does Orvis have any near-term plans to expand your reach in the carpin’ community that you would like to share?  New product releases, events, activities, etc.

Tom Rosenbauer:  We are still in the planning process on more carp-related events and marketing but I do know that the Portland store will run another Carpocalypse tournament next year and we plan to continue sponsoring the other two.

Fly-Carpin:  In a more general sense how does Orvis view the long-term future of fly fishing for carp and how does that future relate to you? Examples would include: Do you anticipate a growing market with changing demand for product and marketing strategies? Do you have any thoughts on what the relationship between the general industry and the community might change and grow?

Tom Rosenbauer:  There will be a changing market but I am not sure how much we need to change our product line to meet it.  But the fact that we are advertising in Carp Pro should let you know we’re serious about the market.  Will the conventional carp fishers cross over into fly fishing?  I am not sure of that.  For 30 years people have said fly fishing for bass will “explode” with all the conventional guys getting into it, but most bass fly rodders are people who fished in salt water or for trout with a fly rod and fish for bass in the warmer months of the year.  So I would not hold my breath for thousands of spin fishermen to grab a fly rod.

However I do think fly fishers who target steelhead, bonefish, and spring creek trout will treat carp fishing as a new challenge that they can do in the off season.  Carp are not a beginner’s fish.

Fly-Carpin:: I am also personally curious if any of your executive, marketing or product development staff has any experience with targeting carp on the fly.  If so can you tell us about it? 

Tom Rosenbauer:  Your last question is easy.  It would be tougher to figure out who in our product development and marketing staff does NOT love carp fishing.  Most of us prefer carp fishing over trout fishing—unfortunately we live surrounded by trout streams and we have to drive an hour for good carp fishing.  But we do it—before and after work and on days off.  We have a group of carp fishers that includes people from marketing, product development, finance, and inventory control.  Plus the owners of the company, the Perkins family.

Fly-Carpin (Follow Up Question): That you have some carp flies in your catalog was a surprise to me, and I try and stay abreast of that.  Good ones too, not just bonefish flies re-categorized for carp.  I find that exciting. How long have you had them and do you fore-see adding more? 

Tom Rosenbauer:  We added them because we love carp fishing and we feel it’s a growing area.  Simple as that. So we went to a couple of our fly designers who had some great carp patterns.