Sunday, October 30, 2011

Matt's Bucket, The "Double" Davy knot and Synergy

A couple of weeks ago I posted a little bit about the 16-20 terminal knot.  I was hoping to generate a discussion and create some synergy with that post to the point where I was a little more argumentative in the comments than I would normally be comfortable with.  Based on those discussions it would seem that most people are in the same boat I have been in.  They have tied the improved clinch since dirt was invented and are reluctant to bust a move, particularly since most options seem to have serious draw-backs beyond strength.

A gentleman named Matt has started a new blog.  So far he is focusing heavily on gear reviews and how-to type content.  Good stuff if you are looking for a more technically bent blog.  He has brought my attention to a couple of recent posts that really have me excited; Tying the "Double" Davy Knot and Knot Testing.  Matt worked hard on these posts and they significantly expand upon my own puny attempt at knot testing.  I am sure he started his testing campaign before my post, but nevertheless, this is the kind of synergy I was hoping for. 

I have actually been using the 16-20 off-and-on in live action.  So far it has held up OK but I did lose one really nice carp where I felt like the knot did not hold up well.  Frankly it seems to be a good knot when tied correctly, but a difficult knot to tie and a very difficult knot to tie consistently.  And the Davy Knot?  Super fast, super easy, uses minimal tippet and would appear in my own preliminary testing to beat the improved clinch AND the 16-20.  I will have to work with it some more, but I think there is a new favorite to take over the business end of my rig.  Thanks Matt!


  1. Thanks McTage, for the shout-out! Glad I could help. Heaven knows that I've benefited a ton from your blog and that of others' so I just wanted to return the favor with sharing some of the bits and pieces I've learned over the years.
    Yeah, my blog will probably remain more tech/how-to oriented for a while longer because I have a 1 year old and a second one in the oven so I'm not going to have too many trip reports in the coming year! Until I get back in the water regularly, I'll be doing lots of internet fishing, enjoying your reports, and posting up some more of the semi-worthless info I have floating around in my noggin.

  2. Pretty good stuff on Matt's blog. Thanks for posting a link. He does have a recent post called "Cocky Carp" though. Dude is heading for trouble if someone doesn't pull him off the edge immediately.

  3. Many of us have been there Matt. Especially carpers. Many of the carpin addicts I have talked to got hooked when the kids were little and the chance to catch big fish close in a daddy-hour was priceless.

    Ty - I have decided the carp spirits do not tolerate interfearance in their nasty little games. Every man for thier own!

  4. Hi McTage,
    Just read your "How To" portion of the blog. I use a RIO Line with a welded loop and use that to attach a typical tapered leader. However, as soon as it works back to a much shorter length, I add non tapered lengths of lesser diameter, turning it into a tapered leader that sinks mush better, and these knotted connections I use also to stop my favorite indicator if it is older and won't hold. As well, the end is about .112-.115 and to this I make a double surgeons loop. The tippet is a 2-4' length of 1X-2X stiffer stuff, like Maxima, again, attached using a surgeons loop. I can instantly take it off and add a new tippet, a lighter or heavier one as well. By the way, no need for me anyway to use a Bimimi Knot, I have never had in heavy line, a double or triple surgeons knot fail. As to the Davy knot, I saw it in the most recent FlyFisherman did I not? It looks an awful lot like "The Kid's Knot" in the great little read, "Midge Magic." I use it at night since it is so minimal, otherwise I attach my fly with a Trilene Knot. Works for me.
    Yours, Gregg

  5. Gregg - Thanks for the info Gregg. I think I need to go on ahead and upsize my tippet in dirtier water. I have developed a habit of 3x or even 4x because some of our waters demand it and don't think to upsize when I can. 4x and 10+lb carp is when you really start to get a feel for how bad some traditional knots really are.

  6. Great stuff here; I've tested out the 16-20 vs. double Davy on 10lb Big Game and found the latter to break before the former. I tie my 16-20 with hemostats (see YouTube videos) as it's very easy and consistent to tie that way.


    1. I will be sure and look up some videos Mark. Didn't realize there was a way to make it more consistent with hemo's. That may be the ticket because it did seem to be the strongest knot when I got it right, I just had difficulty with consistency.


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